User:Rhinozz

I make a lot of QDOS/86-DOS pages, pirate far too many books for research purposes, and don't have FTP access.

Pages I Update

QDOS 0.10

QDOS 0.11

86-DOS 0.2

86-DOS 0.3

86-DOS 0.33 - currently researching, unfinished

The rest of the 86-DOS pages (unfinished)

Misc. QDOS/86-DOS info

• "Tim Paterson also told me that he, unfortunately, didn't keep a copy of QDOS or 86-DOS (I had asked him to share a copy :-)."
• LucasB: Tim Paterson "kept copies of source code listings though"
  • Maybe from a Len Shustek email
• Barry Watzman sold a collection of 86-DOS floppies in 2009
  1. 5 floppies were sold
  2. At least 1.00 was sold, and it was imaged but not dumped anywhere
  3. The versions were probably 0.33, 0.34, 1.00, 1.25 (SCP OEM), and 2.00 (SCP OEM)
• 0.33 and 0.34 were shipped by SCP
• 86-DOS 0.34 is in the possession of BetaCollector, and was shipped
  • Closeup. Also see this.
• Less than 30 people ever saw 86-DOS 0.3, and less than 10 people are estimated to have ever seen QDOS 0.10
• Version 0.2 and 0.3 have their boot sectors and BIOS at the end of their respective manuals
• Microsoft "couldn't find" QDOS source code. However, they returned some pieces of Windows 95 source code later, hinting at them possibly having some of it
• Disk Master was added later - not initially in 86-DOS
• Version 0.42 changed directory entries from 16 to 32 bytes, and added a date timestamp
• LST was a reserved name, the same as PRN
• Lomas licensed 86-DOS 0.2, also see this December ad
  • Lomas additionally licensed 86-DOS 0.33 (or 0.34, but more likely 0.33) for their LDP1 mainframe
  • 0.34 for the LPT1
  • Any version from 0.42 to 0.60 (though 0.42 is most likely), for the LDP1
  • Any version from 0.60 to 1.00 (though 0.60, 0.74, or 0.75 are most likely), for the LDP1
  • Version 1.00 (or 1.01 if it was released), for the LDP1 and LDP2. Also see this ad
  • Any version from 1.00 to 1.10 (either 1.10 or 1.00/1.01)
  • Version 1.10
• The character å (0xE5) was not allowed as the first letter in a filename under 86-DOS
  • "Why E5h? Tim Paterson says because 8" SSSD disks came preformatted with E5h bytes."
  • It allows for a primitive form of file recovery, by manually extracting the file from the disk image.
  • The only useful file recovered as of now is the file åOOTSEC.A86 (BOOTSEC.A86) from the Cromemco 1.00 disk. It was created on 28 April 1980 and is available here (extraction by LucasB).
• While the current dumped version of 86-DOS 1.00 (Cromemco) was dumped by Howard Harte, Don Maslin also had a version. It's not dumped but it's owned by the Computer History Museum. Also see this and this.
  • It's a part of the archive: disk now obtained.
  • The Computer History Museum has 2 other donations of SCP floppies.
  • They also have a potentially unscanned manual.
• Similarly, Rich Cini also has another 86-DOS 1.00 disk.
  • It's a Cromemco 4DFC image - I got it from Rich Cini.
• Tim Shoppa of Trailing Edge has a Cromemco 4DFC version of 86-DOS
• "QDOS was just a stopgap. If I had any clue it would be so successful, I would have spent more time on it."
• Confirms that initial cost was 10k and then 15k per customer
• The 5 June 1981 beta of PC-DOS (dubbed PC-DOS 0.9) has a mention of "Assembler Version 2.10" in the slack space
• Source code (and disks) analysis
  • ASM was version 2.01 in 0.34, 2.10 in 0.42, 2.11 in 0.56, 2.20 in 0.60, 2.23 in 0.74-0.80, 2.24 in 1.00-1.10, and 2.40 in 1.14 (Source: ASM in 1.25 source code)
    • The date on 2.40, and comparing to the disk's version, proves 1.14 was from November 1981 (also INIT.ASM from 1.14 is revised 24 November 1981)
  • COMMAND was version 1.00 in 1.00 and 1.10 in 1.14 (Source: disks)
  • DEBUG was version 1.01 in 1.00 and 1.03 in 1.14 (Source: disks)
  • EDLIN was version 1.00 in 1.00 and 1.01 in 1.14 (Source: disks)
  • INIT was versioned 1.10 in 1.14 and unversioned in 1.00 (Source: disks)
  • MON was versioned 1.5 in both 1.00 and 1.14 (Source: disks)
• DEBUG86 was created for the development of QDOS and only later was translated and added as a command
• "Seattle Computer Products established a base of several dozen customers, including at least one other hardware manufacturer."
• This article recounts the entire story of IBM trying to license CP/M. It also includes a quote, said by Bill Gates to Jack Sams - "Do you want to get it, or do you want me to?" (with 'it' being 86-DOS) - and Sams responded, "By all means, you get it."
• Because there is confusion on how much 86-DOS was bought for, Tim Paterson says it was $50,000.
• Exact dates of licensing and buying 86-DOS (sources in parenthesis):
  • Paul Allen contacts Rod Brock for licensing: 22 September 1980 (Gates by Manes and Andrews)
  • Paul Allen verbally negotiates with Rod Brock a non-exclusive sublicense to an unnamed OEM (IBM): 23 September 1980 (Gates by Manes and Andrews)
  • Rod Brock formally finishes the negotiation and sets out to create a formal contract within 60 days: 24 September 1980 (Gates by Manes and Andrews)
  • Rod Brock finishes the contract, and waits for Microsoft to sign: 7 November 1980 (Gates by Manes and Andrews)
  • Seattle Computer Products signs the license agreement with Microsoft. It costs $10,000 upfront, and $10,000 per customer with an additional $5,000 each if source code is included: 6 January 1981 (License agreement)
  • Paul Allen proposes to Rod Brock that Microsoft buy all rights to 86-DOS for $30,000 plus a license to Microsoft's macro assembler and linker. Seattle Computer Products would get all enhancements that Microsoft would then make to 86-DOS free of charge: 25 June 1981 (Gates by Manes and Andrews)
    • Excerpt here
  • Rod Brock offers a counterproposal for $150,000 plus a right to license all Microsoft languages at a major discount: 10 July 1981 (Gates by Manes and Andrews)
  • Paul Allen negotiates down to $50,000, plus the right to license all Microsoft languages at a major discount: 27 July 1981 (Agreement of sale)
• Ads
  • https://archive.org/details/sim_micro-marketworld_1980-08-25_3_34/page/n17/mode/2up?view=theater (August 25, 1980!! Image 1 Image 2)
  • https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1980-11/page/n243/mode/2up?view=theater
  • https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1981-02/page/n265/mode/2up?view=theater
  • https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1981-05/page/n275/mode/2up?view=theater
  • https://archive.org/details/PracticalComputing1981November11/page/n111/mode/2up?view=theater (Very late)
• Lifeboat Associates tried to buy 86-DOS for $200,000 (Gates by Manes and Andrews) or $250,000 (Hard Drive by Wallace and Erickson), but it failed because Microsoft was already drafting out an agreement of sale to buy it.
• Marketing firm Ries & Ries apparently were contacted by Seattle Computer.
• Lots of general internal info
• A quote from Tim Paterson, presumably from an email
• 0.3 docs were found in an large OEM's trash
• 86-DOS was sold with the SCP 8086 16-bit Computer by American Square Computers in BYTE Magazine, Kilobaud Microcomputing, and Interface Age in 1981 and early 1982 (various sources)
• Tim Paterson - "But it wasn't taken too seriously by software vendors. Oh, there was some interest, but everybody was waiting for CP/M-86.
  • Also from that article: MS-DOS was bought because Microsoft didn't want to pay each time they licensed to an OEM.
• "For .EXE files, none of the .COM file methods work. INT 020H assumes that CS=PSP (code segment = program-segment prefix) because the original DOS, developed by Tim Patterson [sic] at Seattle Computer Products, supported only .COM files."
• "...with our new interrupt-driven, multi-user disk operating system. All will be introduced by mid-year." (January 1980, likely submitted in late 1979. May be referring to CP/M-86, also may unlikely be referring to an early version of 86-DOS.)
• "In a letter to IBM on 1/5/81, MS referred to it as 86-DOS."
• (Page 8) Early account of 86-DOS story
• 8BBS mention of 86-DOS
  • "Joe McGuckin" is Stanley James Brohn Sr.
• MENTION OF 86-DOS ON JUNE 23, 1980
• Tim Paterson was at a IBM PC 20th anniversary party and talked about 86-DOS
• Louis-Luc Le Guerrier has a Cromemco 1.00 disk
  • He was mailed a Tarbell DD disk by Greg Lehey - 2 disks?
• 2 people with more internal info
  • One is Joseph Boykin, who is confirmed to have worked on 86-DOS with 2 others, likely Tim Paterson and Pat Opalka/Rod Brock
    • Both Pat Opalka and Tim Paterson said the name "Joseph Boykin" or "Joe Boykin" doesn't ring a bell
    • Another claim
  • Second is Greg Lehey - see below ("86-DOS 1.00 purchase").
• Tim Paterson spoke at the 1985 Pacific Coast Computer Fair
• "Microsoft submitted a copy to IBM for testing, who found over 300 bugs."
• Stephen Manes has letters to and from Tim Paterson and Rod Brock somewhere, as well as tape recordings of interviews (including an extra interview with SCP employee Pat Opalka)
• Discord user KomputerKid may have a 5.25 86-DOS disk
• Tim Paterson interview
• 1982 - early review of 86-DOS
• 86-DOS 1.00 purchase
  • More info
  • I got the disk from him. It was mailed to Louis-Luc Le Guerrier.
  • 0.3x disk
• "Too bad I missed the machine - but I did pick up everything else the guy had. Came down to a stack of Shugart 8" drives, some CompuPro S-100 boards and a whole bunch of SCP disks."
• Tim Paterson interview
• Old interview - not much relevant info
• "Seattle made available BASIC-86 for its system in conjunction with a DOS"
• Ads for a database management system for 86-DOS
  • Article on its release - was apparently sold by Seattle Computer Products
• Eric Smith (brouhaha) may have had 86-DOS 0.33/0.34
• Tim Paterson letter
  • One more
• Another interview
• VEDIT 1.36 was sold with 86-DOS in 1981
  • Disk image
• 1.14, owned by Slashdot and The Register forums user IvyKing
• Excerpt from book "Inside Out: Microsoft—In Our Own Words", featuring a quote from Tim Paterson

Statements that need more sources

• 86-DOS 0.42 up to MS-DOS 1.14 used hard-wired drive profiles instead of a FAT ID, but used this byte to distinguish between media formatted with 32-byte or 16-byte directory entries, as they were used prior to 86-DOS 0.42.
• 86-DOS did not offer any specific support for fixed disks, but third-party solutions in form of hard disk controllers and corresponding I/O system extensions for 86-DOS were available from companies like Tallgrass Technologies, making hard disks accessible similar to superfloppies within the size limits of the FAT12 file system. (also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallgrass_Technologies)
• In this same time period Phoenix purchased a non-exclusive license for Seattle Computer Products 86-DOS. Phoenix developed customized versions of 86-DOS (or sometimes called PDOS for Phoenix DOS) for various microprocessor platforms. Phoenix also provided PMate as a replacement for Edlin as the DOS file editor. Phoenix also developed C language libraries, called PForCe, along with Plink-86/Plink-86plus, overlay linkers, and Pfix-86, a windowed Debugger for DOS.
  • Incorrect: PDOS was based off of CP/M 1.4 and was released in 1979, from an ad in BYTE 197912.
• I only mention it because Q-DOS and CPM/86 were products available through the Heath Catalog for the late edition of the H8.
  • Incorrect: The H8 used the 8080. HDOS was the operating system, and it was mixed up.
• IBM subjected the operating system to an extensive quality-assurance program, reportedly found well over 300 bugs, and decided to rewrite the programs.